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Podcast No. 84: Mike “Skinny” Foley

Almost everyone in town knows Skinny. Some even know to call in Mike.
Most, though, probably don’t know his real first name is George. He is named after his father, who was my grandpa Bill’s brother.
That makes Skinny my cousin. Sometimes we even admit to as much.
Skinny has officiated youth sports in Butte and around the state for more than four decades. He is good at it, too. He knows the rule book inside and out, backward and forward.
Nobody knows the rule book better than Skinny, and nobody loves to argue more than him.
Since Skinny is a fan of the Lakers, Packers and Dodgers, we argue a lot. We don’t always argue about sports, either. Skinny would argue that the sky is not blue, and he would never back down or admit defeat.
Our biggest argument, which has literally gone on for decades, is about Roger Maris. I say Maris belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Skinny incorrectly says he does not.
We talked about debating that on this podcast. Since, I know it is impossible to beat Skinny in an argument — even if, as in this case, he is 100 percent wrong — I decided we’d focus on other issues.
So, we talked about the shortage of referees and the fact that we can’t get new officials to step up because people are afraid to get yelled at. We talked about Aaron Rodger’s divorce with the Packers, and we talked about how Skinny is never in doubt when making an argument.
We also talked a little bit about Roger Maris.
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Podcast No. 83: Mick Delaney

In 2012, I wrote a column for Butte Sports calling today’s guest the man who saved Montana football.
It wasn’t hyperbole.
With some high-profile off-field issues that cost the coach and athletic director their jobs, Delaney, then closing in on 70, decided to put his retirement on hold and stabilize the program. He coached the team three years, closing with two straight wins over Montana State. That run proved to be a great ending to an incredible career.
The 1961 Butte Central graduate led Great Falls High to the state title in 1974. He also coached some state championship teams in wrestling. He went to Montana State to coach with Sonny Lubick before taking over as AD at Montana Tech.
After running the pizza side of the Vu Villa, Coach Delaney returned to the sideline to serve as head coach and AD at Montana Western. After two years, he left to join Lubick at Colorado State, and he was part of a staff that went on an unprecedented run of success in Fort Colins.
The rest, as they say, is history. Now 80, Coach Delaney and his wife Cheri are retired and living in the Mining City. When they aren’t traveling to play golf, that is.
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Never let yelling fans stop you from officiating

Last December, I went to Whitehall to referee my first two basketball games that were not in the Special Olympics.
Legendary Butte official Mike Anderson was my partner, and he walked me through a couple of junior high games.
Even though I assured her I was in good hands with Mike, my wife was worried as I got ready to leave for the games.
“What if people yell at you?” she asked, sincerely worried about my feelings.
“Have you ever read my email?” I replied. “Between emails, social media comments, online chat sites and anonymous letters, I have been called everything in the book. And that is because they don’t like my opinion or they just generally don’t like the person I’ve become.
“You really think someone getting mad over a block or charge call is going to hurt my feelings?”
Really, I have been called a narcissist, a racist, woke, an egomaniac, a buffoon, a moron, a joker and a clown.
And that was all just last week.
Yet, if you talk to someone about becoming a sports official, almost all of them will tell you that they cannot do it. Almost all of them — like 99.9 percent — will give the same reason why.
“I don’t want people yelling at me.”
When you think about it, that is a very irrational fear. It’s like the Jerry Seinfeld joke about people’s greatest fear. No. 1 is speaking in public, and No. 2 is death.
“This means to the average person, if you have to be at a funeral, you would rather be in the casket than doing the eulogy,” Seinfeld said.
Maybe I’m wired differently, but I would much rather be standing at the podium than lying in a coffin.
That, though, puts me in the minority.
I am probably also in the minority in that I don’t give a rip if people yell at me. Oh, I don’t want my parents or wife yelling at me. But I could care less if a parent in the crowd wants to yell and call me names.
All you have to do is consider the source. Why would you care if you have the approval of someone who is going to act like that in public?
Not wanting angry fans yelling at you might seem like a legitimate reason to not officiate youth sports. But there are so many good things that greatly outweigh the occasional hothead in the crowd.
For instance, you can make decent money as a referee. If you are a college student, or parent of one, there probably isn’t a better part-time job than putting on the stripes.
In basketball, you don’t even have to officiate varsity games to make good money. In Montana right now, the going rate for subvarsity high school games is $48 per game. Generally, you work two subvarsity games during each assignment.
That means you head home with $96 — plus travel money — for about three hours of work, which isn’t really work. You can easily make $300 to $400 every week from early December through February.
Not a bad gig. It beats the heck out of stocking shelves, slinging drinks or selling burgers.
It beats the heck out of selling your plasma twice a week every week to make $500 to $600 a month.
You can make even more money if you are willing to work the youth tournaments that are held nearly every weekend.
As an official, you also get to watch some outstanding athletes compete from the best vantage point in the house. While you aren’t necessarily in the game, you get to be part of it.
And, really, you don’t get yelled at very much.
Sure, knucklehead parents will yell at you in the youth tournaments. But you hardly see any incidents in high school games, where they have school administrators there to throw out unruly fans.
I heard some fans yell at me during my first season as a basketball ref, and almost every time it made me laugh. The comment was almost always off base to a ridiculous degree.
Other times, I thought, “Well, he’s got a point. That might have been the wrong call.”
Not once did it hurt my feelings. Not once did it make me lose a wink of sleep.
I wasn’t even bent out of shape when some travel parents went way out of their way to call me a cheater. I just smiled because I knew they gave me something to write about, and that turned out to be one of my most-read columns.
Most officials will get yelled at throughout their career. If you work 40 years, though, you might have just a handful of incidents when you have to throw a fan out of a game. Really, that’s it.
You see every bad sports fan moment on social media, but most games go off without any real incidents. And when something bad happens, it is always the berserk fan who looks like an idiot.
Then the referee has a good story to tell.
Right now, we need sports officials more than ever, and we need them in every sport.
Last week, Butte High’s junior varsity baseball team could not go to Columbus with the varsity to play Sidney. The reason is a story we are going to hear more and more. Not enough umpires were available for the younger boys to play.
What a sad commentary.

Of course, part of that has to do with the weather. This spring has been brutally cold and wet, and whenever we have a nice day in the forecast, every softball and baseball team will try to play some make-up games.
Part of it is that we don’t have enough men and women stepping up to be sports officials. The reason for this is inadequate, too.
Yes, we need fans to start treating officials better. That is just common sense.
We definitely need more people living by the Golden Rule.
We also need people to realize that, unlike sticks and stones, yelling grandmas will not hurt you. Well, maybe in Anaconda. Otherwise, you are going to be safe.
If it is your own grandma yelling at you, then you might have a problem. If it is the point guard’s grandma, then it is her problem. She’s the one looking like a fool in public.
Officials definitely do not get treated like they should. But neither do fast-food workers.
I have seen a handful of incidents when officials were treated horribly and fans had to be ejected. But I’ve seen way more incidents of people assaulting — verbally and physically — teachers, bartenders, Little Caesars workers, government clerks and police officers.
Over the years, I have asked so many officials about being yelled at by fans. Almost every one told me that they either don’t hear it or that they just laugh it off.
So, if you are able-bodied and could use a few extra bucks in your pocket, join your local pool and start officiating games.
The young players need you. Plus, I found that the fun little gig is more rewarding than I ever imagined, so don’t let the fear of being yelled at hold you back.
After working one season, I can honestly tell you that the yelling is not nearly as bad as you might think. The yellers will make you laugh way more than they will make you cry.
Reading my emails, however, is a completely different story.
— Bill Foley, who cries a lot, can be reached at foles74@gmail.com. Follow him at twitter.com/Foles74. Listen to the ButteCast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
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Podcast No. 82: Amanda Curtis

Amanda Curtis is a former U.S. Senate candidate, a former Montana legislator and a former teacher at Butte Central and Butte High.
She is currently the president of the Montana Federation of Public Employees, which is the state’s largest labor union.
Amanda is also a Butte girl. She might have been raised in Billings, graduating from Billings Skyview in 1997, but she lives in the Mining City now. She says she and her husband Kevin will never leave.
Even though her new job is in Helena, she still lives in Butte.
Amanda graduated from Montana Tech with a bachelor of science in biology. She then earned her secondar teaching certificate in biology and mathematics from the University of Montana Western.

She served two terms in Montana’s House of Representative from 2013 to 2015 and 2017 to 2019. During that time, she became popular for her video blog documenting the sometimes-crazy happenings of the Montana Legislature.
In 2014, Amanda was picked to replace John Walsh as the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate. She was not expected to win the race. Still, she mopped the floor with Daines in the debate, and she made the race interesting until the very end.
Listen to this fun conversation, which was recorded earlier Friday at Headframe Spirits in Butte. Listen as she talks about growing up poor and the chip that put on her shoulder. Listen to hear her love of Butte and her strong belief in unionism.
Listen to see if she has another run for office in the future.
Note: Once again, Spotify seems to be having issues playing this podcast. It is working on Apple Podcasts.
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Podcast No. 81: Jon Wick

Today’s podcast guest is Jon Wick. That is Jon with no H, and he is actually more interesting than the action star played by Keanu Reeves.
The real Jon Wick is a native of Manitowoc, Wisconsin, which was made famous by the Netflix documentary series “Making a Murder.” But it seems like he has been living in Butte his entire life. Jon and his wife, Cassie, own 5518 Designs in Butte and Anaconda, as well as Dig City Supply in Butte.
They are the first two lead the way in picking up our community. When the M&M burned down a couple of years ago, Jon designed the “Long Live The M&M” shirts that almost everyone in town owns.
He is also a past executive director of Mariah’s Challenge.
Jon came to Butte by way of Philipsburg, where he taught fifth grade and coached football for four years. He and Cassie taught in Korea for a year, and Jon is a cancer survivor.
John Wick in the movies isn’t that interesting.
The real Jon Wick and I met Thursday afternoon at the M&M 2.0, which is next door to the old one. Someday, the old one will be rebuilt, and that effort began with an assist from the real Jon Wick.
Listen as he talks about his Wisconsin roots and watching Making A Murder. Listen as he talks about his journey to Montana and how he came up with the name 5518 Designs. Listen to why he considers Butte to be his home.
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Box scores and local journalism keep fading away

In the spring of 1998, I was working on the sports desk of The Moscow-Pullman Daily News in Moscow, Idaho.
I was doing some research to write a preview story about the Moscow High School baseball team playing in the State tournament when the phone rang. On the other end of the phone was the coach of Moscow’s first-round opponent.
The timing of the call was surprising, as was the voice on the other end.
The coach was Jerry Hollow. Yes, that Jerry Hollow.
It was an amazing small-world moment. A Butte Rat who coached high school baseball in the Boise, Idaho area called the newspaper in Moscow only to get another Butte Rat.
After we talked about the days when I watched Jerry play basketball for Butte Central, he asked me for some information on the Moscow Bears. He was looking for a scouting report on an opponent that was so far away that he couldn’t have watched the team play.
I told him what I could without selling out any secrets that I picked up from the Bears players and coaches. I told him which players were left-handed. I told him which pitchers threw hard and which ones were crafty.
For the most part, though, I did not tell Jerry much more than what he could have learned from reading the season’s box scores.
The box scores would tell him the lineups the Bears used, and he could figure out their top hitters — for average and for power. It would tell him which Moscow players stole bases. The same box scores told him that the Moscow coach had a quick hook for his starting pitchers.
The Moscow starters only went a couple of innings. Sometimes they would go three, but they would never go four.
All of that information was right in the box scores.
Box scores tell you the story of the game, and they help you keep a record. Box scores — along with the next day’s pitchers and the horse race lineups — are probably the reason newspapers had sports pages in the first place.
Whether it is football, basketball, baseball, or any other sport, box scores are also such an important part of history.
The game story above the box score is important. It gives the game life. The box score is the heart.
The late Pat Kearney went through newspapers over a century to calculate accurate records for the football and basketball programs at Butte High and Butte Central. He did that by reading the box scores.
Today, box scores are nowhere to be found in most papers. Oh, you might find the Major League Baseball box scores for the day before — or from two days before for the games out west — when you open a newspaper, but you will rarely find box scores from the high school teams.
Part of that is the demise of local print journalism. Part of it is laziness, and part of it is that writers have their hands cuffed by corporate greed.
Last week, Lee Enterprises announced another round of layoffs in Montana. That comes after the company I used to work for cut 400 jobs nationwide in 2022.
A Missoulian reporter said she returned from her two-week, unpaid furlough — something all Lee employees are shamefully being forced to take — just in time to learn of her layoff.
Lee owns The Montana Standard, Missoulian, Helena Independent-Record, Ravalli Republic and Billings Gazette.
Those papers are just a shell of what they used to be, following a national trend of a dying industry.
That is a dangerous trend, too.
As Butte journalist Kathleen McLaughlin recently pointed out in a piece in The Nation, that erosion of local journalism has led to the hyper-partisan ways of the country. Voters identify with parties instead of issues.
That is because there is less and less reporting on local issues.
In Montana, voters know way more about Florida governor Ron DeSantis than they do about our own governor, WWE International Champion Greg Gianforte.
We used to be able to rely on great reporters like Chuck Johnson to tell us who our political candidates were. Now, we only know about the candidates what the attack ads tell us.
We vote based on the national campaigns, and then we just fill in by party when we get to the local races.
We do this while the newspapers are mistaking text-message journalism — where reporters tweet pictures of legislative vote boards, rollcalls or polls — for real journalism.
That is how we end up with an anti-public education Superintendent of Public Instruction in Elsie Arntzen, who last year was caught racing past a school bus with its lights flashing and crossing arm extended.
We got in this situation because corporate-owned newspapers keep making cutbacks in order to make their profits look better for the stockholders.
I saw those short-term, shortsighted cuts made repeatedly when I worked for the Standard from 1998 to 2012.
I saw them cut out the press men and the printing press to cut corners and save money. Then they started to make deep cuts in the newsroom.
A little more than 11 years ago, I knew the business was in big trouble when I got a call telling me that sports editor Bruce Sayler was laid off. His major crime was that he was about to turn 60.
Of course, they didn’t put it that way. They “eliminated the position” of sports editor, asking the rest of us to pick up the slack and work harder for the same pay.
It’s the new normal in American industry, especially the media industry.
Knowing that I didn’t want that to happen to me, I decided to go to work with Butte Broadcasting, where we started ButteSports.
Then, I watched from afar as great Montana journalists like Walter Hinick, Carmen Winslow, Bob Meseroll and Chuck Johnson got the same treatment from Lee that Bruce got.
We need more veteran journalists like that, not less. That goes for news and sports.
When Bruce was in charge of the sports desk, we had a story for every game. Every game.
And we had box scores from those games, too.
It was the same way with Meseroll when he was the sports editor at the Missoulian.
Now, only two or three sportswriters in the entire state ever type a box score, and that is just too bad.
They say the newspaper is the first rough draft of history. When it comes to local sports reporting, it is usually the last draft, too.
Without box scores, we would have had no idea just how historic the past two seasons were for Butte Central seniors Dougie Peoples and Brooke Badovinac. We would have no idea when Lexie Nelson broke Butte’s all-time scoring record in 2010.
Instead of box scores, today we get more text-message journalism. Sportswriters tweet short videos clips from games — something every mom in the crowd already shared on Facebook — instead of typing up box scores.
I don’t blame the writers, many of whom have never been taught how to type a box. I blame their bosses.
Those videos might be fun and the feature-type stories are entertaining, but they will do absolutely nothing 50 years from now when someone wants to do some real historical research.
Hopefully, football and basketball coaches are on top of things and keeping their own records. Hopefully, every baseball and softball team is on an app like GameChanger so fans can see a real box score.
Hopefully, someone is saving this history because newspapers have given up that responsibility.
And far-away coaches looking for a scouting report could be out of luck.
— Bill Foley, a proud member of the Life After Lee gang, can be reached at foles74@gmail.com. Follow him at twitter.com/Foles74. Listen to the ButteCast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.













